Abraham Kim
Last week, we interviewed Jeanie Chang, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Founder of Your Change Provider, a therapeutic practice centered on authentic self-care and wellness. Her work is all about promoting a culturally competent approach to family, community, and work life.

Abraham Kim
But mental health is a broad topic and this week we’re continuing that conversation with Part Two. If you did not listen to part one, I encourage you to listen to that episode first where we discuss sensitive issues that many Korean American families are struggling with today: depression, trauma, parent-teenager relationships and suicide.

Abraham Kim
This time, we discuss about another series of important topics. First, we’ll talk about burnout. Burnout for both students and professionals and how we deal with that burnout. Two, intercultural trauma, cultural gaps and communication barriers between 1st generation parents and 2nd generation kids. Three, strategies for college and high school children to speak to their parents, especially 1st generation parents. And finally, we’ll touch on mindfulness and meditation and how these practices can heal your mind.

Abraham Kim
If last episode was helpful for teenage parents, this episode will be particularly helpful for our teenage and college-level students. But again, all of this is helpful to learning more about ourselves and our mental health. Without further ado, let’s go right into the interview now with Jeanie Chang.

Abraham Kim
Hi, this is Abraham Kim, Executive Director at the Council of Korean Americans. We welcome you back to our podcast, the Korean American Perspectives. We’re in part two of an extended conversation with our guest, Jeanie Chang, CKA member as well as licensed marriage and family therapist and a certified clinical trauma professional. If you haven’t heard our last episodes about her life about stress and trauma and suicide and how to talk about suicide with our children as parents, I encourage you to listen to our previous podcast and then come back to the second one. But on this podcast, we’d like to talk to her with a particular focus on students and young people and how they can deal with stress and also extreme anxiety. And also we’ll talk about suicide as well. So with that Jeanie, welcome back.

Jeanie Chang
Thank you. Thanks for having me back again.

Abraham Kim
I just wanted to start off by talking about our young people, second generation students and even third generations now, college students and high school students; and you speak to many of them in your profession. I’m wondering if you could kind of outline for us what are some of the stresses that our young people are facing today?

Jeanie Chang
Yeah, so it’s very interesting. Before I answer that question, my background: I’m a second generation Korean American, but I’m older than some of these college kids today— but they are also second generation. So, what’s unique about my voice is I understand what they’re going through even though they’re my kid’s age, my kids are technically third generation, and I understand their parents cause I’m a parent. Even though their parents are first generation. I say this because that’s why I’m speaking more to college campuses because the reality is: stress, anxiety, depression is on the rise. Data shows that just life is hard. I think life is hard. There’s a lot of things going on and on college campuses, too. I mean, I don’t know about you, Abe, but I feel like college is harder than ever to even get into. So, you already have these stressed out kids in high school, they’re all rear to go to college or being pushed to go to college. And then even colleges that 10, 20 years ago, state colleges, that weren’t that difficult or extremely difficult to get into. So I’m just sharing that’s where just society is today, right? So it’s getting harder in general. And then we have the pressures of the cultural norms of being a second generation college student. And what I see, I will say what I’m seeing the most, and this is very interesting to me, but they’re calling it “burnout .” Even when they’re 18, 19, 20, 21, 22— you know how young that is? But they’re like, “Jeanie, we’re burned out”. And I’m thinking, of course, in my head, I’m like, “Okay, so you’re 19.” And I’m kind of thinking that’s funny, but then I’m like, tell me more.

Jeanie Chang
Okay. This burnout, because the way I see burnout is when I see a lot of professionals, it’s being burned out over time. Their field has, you know, just kind of put them against the wall and they’re just, they’re very stressed out. Their burnout, which is very interesting, is what I would call intergenerational trauma. So after years of feeling struggle, struggling with their identity, you know, growing up with first-generation parents, and then being pushed, and then coming to college and they’re proud of where they’re at. Don’t forget, I’m in Raleigh, North Carolina, so I see a lot of Duke, UNC, Chapel Hill, NC State kids, right? Very driven and very smart kids that talk about finally hitting them when they get to college going, “Wait a second. All these years I’ve endured the stuff from my parents,” and that’s what they’re calling burnout. And for some reason, and I want to say I’m talking to, you know, numerous students and even doing a workshop on it eventually that they want to call this burnout. They’re burned out from the stressors of their culture in the home that they somehow managed to bring into college life and it hit them when they were in college. I think it’s because they left that environment. You know, you’re able to see things more clearly and then you’re in the midst of school and you’re finally able to study what you want to study and you’re excited with some freedom, but then you know how you get there and all the adrenaline. This is kind of how survival mode works. You’re living on adrenaline all these years, maybe in your family home, being pushed, and then first-generation culture and know you’ve got to do this. You gotta be this, you got to go to med school, you’ve gotta go to law school, and then you get to college. The adrenaline kind of disperses and all of a sudden you’re like, you sit and you think, “Oh my gosh, I’m tired. I just fought my parents for 18 years and now I’m in college getting to do what I get to do”. But then they’re left with this burnout of having to fight over the years. I guess the cultural conflict, right? So that is what I’m seeing, a huge amount and I thought I just wanted to share that that’s what college kids are calling burnout, and it is called intergenerational trauma. That is a such thing. The trauma that they experience, their own stressors and it is traumatic to them. Some of them were brought up being called names by their parents or “You’re not good enough” or “You better go to med school because this is what he’s doing” or “This is what your brother’s doing” and “What? You want to become a historian?”. I mean, I’m just giving examples and that hits them in college when they’re apart from that and they can actually kind of soak it in and I see them very worn down.

Abraham Kim
Yeah. It’s interesting. Obviously, I went to college and I worked on a college campus as well and you see how different kids handle that new environment when they go to college, some kids completely unravel. And, what were straight-A students and valedictorians in high school, they hit college and then they completely go off the deep end in terms of they just don’t care about studying or anything. And then you have another group of kids who use that freedom to go in a completely different direction in terms of their life. Maybe they have a repressed creative side they always wanted to do. And then, there are others who just continue on that pathway and continue to be that workaholic and move forward. And, so it’s interesting that there’s a name for it.

Jeanie Chang
Right. And you see, it’s all cultural related. It’s all how they, and I’m not saying it’s related to depression, anxiety, not at all. It actually, that’s how anxiety and depression manifest. But, it really stems from the cultural upbringing that they experienced. This is a reality that kinda hit me recently, but unfortunately the same things that I experienced as a student with my parents and having these conversations I couldn’t have with my parents still exist today. Of course. It makes sense. We were making strides in mental health of course, but you still have first generation families coming here, right? Immigrant families are coming all the time and they’re raising kids. So, you’re always going to be actually dealing with this so-called “intergenerational trauma”, if that makes sense. For some reason, I thought in my head, “It’s going to get better because we’re making these strides in mental health”. Well, it will have more resources and I think more clinicians are getting knowledge to be more culturally competent and how to address Asian American issues and understanding intergenerational stress or what I also call “acculturation stress”, which is what our parents brought up, we’re kind of dealing with and they translate it to their kids. But the reality is, this will always exist cause you’re going to always have first, second, third generation.

Abraham Kim
Well, is this a first, second generation problem or is this, are you seeing that in the, like us, you know, we’re second generation parents and we have kids in college. Are you seeing that in the third generation kids?

Jeanie Chang
I will say I’ll answer two-fold. I’m seeing just as much trouble in the third generation kids when it comes to, emotional wellbeing. Like stress and anxiety and depression and even worse in the third generation. Because now these days that the latest thing is, you know, people self-harm, right? And it’s all on social media. So you do have like an infiltration of people going, “Oh yeah, so she posted that she did this to herself. I’m going to do it too”. That makes sense. So in that sense, it’s just as bad, but there’s less cultural stress. That makes sense. So, I don’t think the third generation is experiencing as much intergenerational trauma because their second generation parents are more Americanized; speaking English fully in the home, perhaps. Much more communicative, but our third generation kids are dealing with probably the actual stressors of society that are not related to being Asian American. If I’m making sense just what’s going on in society today, like social, I do believe some day there will be, there’s something called the DSM. It’s basically our manual, our bible of the psychology field, the diagnostic statistical manual. It’s a long story, but it’s basically where we go to that book if we need to diagnose somebody with all these codes. I believe someday when it’s updated, I believe soon, the last version was 2013, I believe we will see like a social media disorder. I mean that’s just what we’re talking about in our clinical field. There’s gonna be something there related to technology. I love technology, don’t get me wrong, I depend on my phone and I think it’s great. It’s great for safety to note for me to know where my kids are at. But, there’s also some connection lost. And sometimes I don’t even know when I get some teens coming in, young college students coming in, I don’t even know what they’re saying. I’m like, “Wait, hold on. “What’d you say?” Because they’re just, they’re talking almost like, you know, “OMG blah blah blah”. And I’m like, what? I don’t understand that very slang. But, also they’re not as adept at having this conversation cause everything is on the phone right, via Snapchat. So that is also part of the dysfunction. And I hate using that word, but that’s what I use as a clinical term in third generation kids because it’s all based on technology. So they don’t even know how to have a phone conversation. But, talking about culture, no, I don’t believe they experienced as much of that cultural stress.

Abraham Kim
So you would say third generation kids are more primarily, if they are suffering from mental health dysfunction as you’re saying, are more similar to what the mainstream students are experiencing.

Jeanie Chang
Yes. I would say so. I’m seeing right now less Asian cultural issues. But, you still got the cultural issues of a family where kids don’t want to talk to their parents in general. And that’s just not Asian, right? So you’re still going to see that and I still do see that, but I’m taking a little bit of our culture out of this for the third generation.

Abraham Kim
So how are today’s students addressing mental health? What are the resources and where are they going for help?

Jeanie Chang
I didn’t want to take this turn, but I will say when I kind of, by accident, I talked to this one group of kids who are leading this Asian-American initiative at UNC Chapel Hill and immediately when I shared what I did, it went to like, I was like, “Weren’t we gonna talk about your initiative?” What the great thing is they’re having lots of conversations and you know, courageous conversations about talking about it more. So, there’s a lot of great vulnerability movement going on. But, then I also hear a little alarming fact where a lot of the students will say to me, “Hey Jeanie, by the way, we go to campus, we go to our campus wellness center” or “Try to get mental health services on campus cause we’re there, but they don’t understand”. So, we’re not really seeing a lot of Asian American counselors on campus. Does that make sense? I just talked about cultural competency and probably in the previous podcast, but a lot of the help that the students are seeking, I’m talking Asian-American second generation, their needs are not being met so they are wanting help. So they’re doing the right thing. But then I’m like, “Oh, this is serious”. When you just told me that you went to your counselor and a group of you went to different counselors and got the same response and it did nothing for you and just made you more depressed. That’s actually what I’ve heard. And this is not just in the Raleigh area, these are other college campuses. So I’m talking about a greater issue out there of actually providing the cultural competency training for clinicians that are not Asian-American because we’re not all in this field, right? But, the college kids have shared, “We would love more mental help. Mental health wellness or counseling. And we actually go, it’s free for us, you know, to go to the counseling center”. But they said, “But we get nothing out of it”. And in fact, they actually leave feeling worse because they’re talking about certain things about their culture and the counselors don’t understand.

Jeanie Chang
So, the second generation Korean Americans or Asian Americans today are dealing with very specific cultural trauma issues that perhaps you and I might’ve experienced. When I say trauma, it’s just, even when I think back when my mom would compare me to a cousin who might’ve graduated from high school at age 16. And yes, I did have a cousin who did that and then went to Stanford and all that. All she did was talk about that. And you’re sitting there going, “Well, I feel kind of not-so-good”. A lot of what I see in the second generation that were raised like us is their lack of confidence and that’s what I tell them. What I try to do is instill their confidence by giving them skills and I don’t really just hone in on mental health issues, I talk about what they are doing, their strengths, what are they good at? And then that leads to a whole ‘nother conversation when they say, “Well, what I’m really good at is drawing. And my parents would flip out if I went to you know, Duke and then came out saying, by the way, I want to go to art school”. That conversation, I’m laughing about it; when you know that type of conversation, “Yes, you’re going to go to med school”, “You going to go to law school” or “You’re going to do this” and “This is what you’re going to do”, and that’s what you hear in your parents. And so one of the questions I get a lot, it’s probably maybe I’m answering one of your questions is how do they talk to their parents about it? And that is a very multi-dimensional question cause when they come to see me, depending on who I’m speaking with and what their main struggle is, I kinda cater the therapy session that way, if that makes sense. And so actually a lot of what I do is educate parents on how they can help their kids, believe it or not. The good movement is more parents, even first generation because they’re seeing a lot of media going on social media and their kids are experiencing some stress and everything they are seeking help. The first generation parents today that maybe my parents had no clue about. This is America. We’re getting more progression toward mental health. So I think the first generation parents today are experiencing that. But the struggle of talking to your first generation parents, Oh, that’s like a whole ‘nother workshop. It’s very difficult.

Abraham Kim
Well, there’s language barriers, there’s cultural barriers. Depending on how the parents look at mental health, whether they think it’s legitimate or not, for example, the solution from those parents may be, just buck up and be strong or it’d be, “If I were you, I would have done things differently” kind of thing.

Jeanie Chang
That’s funny. That’s exactly the response they’re getting, right?

Abraham Kim
The language difference, right? So the child is trying to explain in English the parents only primary language is Korean and there’s something lost in translation, as well. And so there’s a lot of hurdles there in terms of just being able to really truly communicate with your parents and also their own upbringing. And parents are bringing luggage into experiences into this relationship as well and how they dealt with it. They assume, “Well, that’s how you should deal with it, too”.

Jeanie Chang
Right. But I think you were going to ask this question and so maybe I’ll answer this for you. How can kids talk to their parents? So this is, I would actually mirror the answer that I would give to parents. How do they talk to their kids? I’d say, “Students, listen, you want your parents to hear you out. Maybe it’s a career change. Maybe you’re going to drop your major, maybe you’re going to drop out of school or maybe not even that. Maybe you’re just unhappy and want some help. So this is what you do”. Just like I say to parents, be a student of your student, “Kids, understand your parents”. So for a little while, even if you dislike it, helping your mom, I don’t know, make kimchi, I’m just giving an example. This is where you need that connecting moment because your parents also need to feel connected with you on their level of what culturally works for them, or what they feel comfortable with. Maybe you’ve always refused because that was part of the culture you just disliked. You’re like, “Mom, I just can’t stand this. I want to do my own thing”. Well, I asked all college students because you need to get your way and you want to be able to talk and break through to them, this decision you’re making or whatever, then you do need to do what they want for a little bit. Not like the career, I meant, maybe your mom’s asked you to stop doing- I don’t know examples. Oh, maybe your mom says, “Please speak Korean 100% of the time and you’re like, “Seriously? I don’t want to”. I go, “Hey, do it”. Do it. During that time you’re speaking Korean. Your mom’s so happy. Your dad’s like, “Oh, that’s good. Good job. You’re doing Korean”. And then you go in for the kill: what you need to share because your parents are on that level of, I’m really happy my daughter is doing what I asked her, but this part. I will say, it may not be taken well, whatever you’re going to share on something that may go against your family or whatever, but I will say it will be taken better, if that makes sense. And you still might have that fight ahead, but you’re not going to break through at all when you’re already fighting them about the cultural norms that are happening in your family, if I’m making sense. So I actually tell the students to be culturally competent too. Hey, if you know your parents prefer this tradition or do this this way, do it so you can actually connect with them and there’s one less fight for your real fight. Does that make sense?

Abraham Kim
Yeah. I’m reflecting back to a movie that both you and I saw, which was, “Happy Cleaners”, and when you watch that movie, the opening scene is about the son wanting to be a chef rather than going college, right? But, it’s more than a cultural difference there. From the mother’s perspective, they sacrifice their entire life and the reason for immigrating and living this difficult life was to invest in their kids so they can have a better opportunity, but the son wants to do something that’s completely different from what is the traditional norm. And so, in some cases it’s more than just maybe a cultural gap, but it’s from the parents’ perspective, they’ve literally sacrificed everything so that this child could have that important opportunity that they could never have, and then the child wants to do something different, which to them makes it sound like they’ve completely discounted everything their parents had ever done. But, when the stakes are that high, how do you talk to your parents if you want to be an artist or a chef or a, you know, a dancer or, whatever the case may be, that may not be being a lawyer or a doctor or …

Jeanie Chang
Right. So that story that actually a movie is actually a great example of exactly what I’m talking about. So for people who haven’t seen it, toward the latter half of that movie, when the kid that wanted to go off and become a chef and his parents owned a dry cleaners and they work their butt off, right? And their hope was, I think, the bottom line for parents is: they don’t want their kids to suffer like they did. I mean, I grasp that later on in life and you can appreciate it now being parents, right? You don’t want to see your kids suffer. You want them to be happy and healthy and not express that those parents suffered a lot working 12-hour days and they were tired, crunching numbers and all that. But what you saw happen was exactly what I’m talking about. He went in to help with the business, right? Naturally. He was like helping them do deliveries or something like that that they needed the help to, I guess, survive. I think the situation was they’re about to lose their rent or lease on the place and he went ahead and went in, did some deliveries for them so they can earn some money. I’m watching this from a therapist point of view going that’s when the kid connected with his parents and that’s when the parents started changing. So I don’t know if you saw that, but that’s when the parents were like to the very end, she’s like, “Go ahead. You become a chef”. I don’t know if you remember that. And, I don’t know if he ever became one because the movie ended, but you never know. Sorry, did I just ruin the movie? Oops. You can delete that out. But, I want to say what happened was he came in and helped with the business and that’s where the family connection happened. And you could see the change in the parents of becoming more communicative with their child. So that’s exactly what I was talking about. Kids, connect with your family, too, as much as you’re struggling with the culture, because I guarantee they’ll listen to you more when you also meet them where they’re at, if that makes sense.

Abraham Kim
Makes sense. If students, both young men and women, who are maybe going in the middle of this difficult kind of mental health state or difficulty in communicating with their parents, and [it’s] clear their families is not the place to find relief or help. What are the places or culturally sensitive areas/places where they can find help and support?

Jeanie Chang
Yeah, and that’s a great question. A lot of the universities, I want to say, they should have their own, Asian student associations. Now some of them, I also recall in college, were the party places. You know, you have to get the caution against that. But, I will say there is value in being part of your community. That is what I’m seeing where they get fed. They identify the party, the Asian student association that are more party-oriented, and then they identify the other Asian student associations that fit their needs and actually that’s where I see a lot of good connections fostering being helped on campus. A lot of them actually get very close because they can’t talk to their parents. And I’m talking Asian Americans, not just East Asian, I’m talking Southeast Asian, South Asian. I’m actually very pleased with how diverse our campuses are becoming, where they have multiple Asian student associations, so my advice to students was to get plugged in right away; if you’re able to, an Asian community on campus, that could be the cultural part. There could be an Asian computer lab, whatever it is that’s kind of your interest. Get plugged in so you can have that relationship so you won’t feel as alone. Cause I guarantee you’ll find some people to connect with you on that level where they can’t talk to their parents because they’re very traditional and you can talk to your friends. That would be step one: you need a community. And then two would be if you really feel you’re experiencing and not able to function well, then I would say please go on to get professional help. That’s where I went on to say I’m a little concerned about some of the help on campus. Then you get private help, you know, you go outside of your school if you need to get it, but you don’t want to be in that state of chronic stress that it gets to be very difficult. I say you start recognizing signs and I say, “Hey kids, you’re smart. If you start feeling like you’re not doing well, you go immediately to get some professional help. That’s what we’re here for”.

Abraham Kim
How about for students, for example, who are maybe not in extreme cases of stress but just wanting to feel pressure but want to be able to handle the stress in a more healthy manner. What would you recommend?

Jeanie Chang
Well, believe it or not because they’re very tech savvy. I actually say there’s some great online resources really, and that’s actually part of why I do some online therapy now, but I say caution with the wind. Don’t be sitting there Googling everything, but there are some great YouTube and great PDFs out there that kind of inform you on skills if you cannot go to somebody or you just want something on your own. But, I will say that’s good and all but, the number one thing, and I can’t help saying this because I was talking about this Harvard happiness study, you still need to connect with somebody. Find a support group. I will emphasize your community is actually what sustains you in the long run, in any sense of the word, not just college, everywhere, family, whatever that looks like. It might not be your nuclear family. Maybe it’s your cousins. Whatever that is, identify that and know that you feel safe there and make that part of your daily routine or whatever it is. You could be on a text thread with these people and actually these days people do all these texts groups, right? Snapchat groups. I actually am okay with that because some of them foster the community that they need and some of their silly names. I’ve seen some of the kids show me the names. Oh there they go, “This is our band group”. I’m like, that’s cool. I’m talking about that because in the end a lot of that stress and depression that they experience, a lot of it could be remedied by feeling like you’re not alone and so I’m all about plugging into a community and if you need help doing that, then you go find help doing that. If you need to go to student resources, you need to find the community best for you. So I go immediately, “You get to a college campus, you find that outlet, that club, that student association, that hobby, that can plug you in immediately because you will need that community”. So number one is the community, basically, and then professional help when it’s needed.

Abraham Kim
To keep my physical health, I go jogging every other day, for example, or go to the gym. Is there a mental health equivalent, something that you should be doing as someone in a stressful situation, be it a job or be at school, that one should be doing maybe every day or every other day or three times a week.

Jeanie Chang
That would be totally a podcast three. No, but that would be a concept of mindfulness that I always teach to any student, to any professional. Something as simple as practicing deep breathing skills that you can literally do as you’re talking to me. You could be doing it as I’m talking to you and that you can do every day, every moment of the day. It’s mindfulness; understanding the moment that you’re in and the stress that you’re experiencing and what you could do is understand how deep breathing works. And then there’s other strategic skills like that I share. If you feel like you’re in a toxic environment or in a toxic relationship with a coworker or persons, you are smart enough to know that. And I’ll say an example of strategic mental health every day; you cut ties on that toxic relationship. I’m just giving an example that it might not be a formal class or formal therapy session, but there are things that you can do. And I always believe as a solution-focus therapist, you have your own strengths and you can find them and my job is just to bring them out. So yeah, I say podcast three, we’ll discuss mindfulness skills, but those are what I teach for that very question. You asked what you can do every day. Not even every other day. You can do it every day and it’s easy. And it might change the course of a decision that you make. You want to go yell at somebody, you do some deep breathing, “You know what, she had a bad day”. Your mind just becomes a little clearer to think a little better where you’re not gonna yell at that person, if that makes sense. It’s just a classic example or you write that email that you decide you’re gonna send a nasty email. “You know what? No, let me do some deep breathing. It’s not wise for me to send this email. I’m too mad. I’ll wait”. And then you wait and you find out you’re less mad. So yes. So the question is yes, you can do things every day.

Abraham Kim
Are there just maybe a few specific resources that you can point to people to help them.

Jeanie Chang
Meditation. Let me explain. Mindfulness and meditation. People are like, “I don’t want to talk about meditation. That’s so like far out there”. Listen, did you know that now there’s meditation rooms in corporate America. Meditation is the awareness of nothing. Mindfulness is awareness of something. So understanding that alone is a big deal, so when you’re going to meditate, I literally mean you just sit there and hear yourself breathing for like, I’m talking, one minute just to be like, “I’m going to think of nothing. So I could just kind of get through my day”. And believe it or not, it takes practice. I tell people, “Don’t poo-poo on this. Just please try practicing it and you will see that it might change your attitude towards stress. You may understand the meaning behind your steps”. The whole point of mindfulness is understanding the meaning of something. So, Abe, maybe you just snapped at your son and you realize, wait a second, let me do some deep breathing here. “Okay, I snapped at him. It’s not because of him, it’s because I’m stressed out cause I had a terrible day at work”. I mean that’s just, but that actually is being intentional and that is mindfulness. Resources wise, and there’s a lot online, but you know what really helps, honestly, is understanding the practice of yoga to begin the practice of meditation. Because people are like, “I don’t have time for yoga”. I go, “Go to one yoga class and understand the concept”, because I don’t necessarily go to yoga either, but then understand that meditation is very strategic. It can happen anywhere. Right? I mean these are skills that I teach constantly and I’m always telling people you need to practice it. You won’t be able to understand the stress or why you’re depressed about something if you’re not practicing mindfulness. That’s why I’m such a big proponent of it and I do it myself. So, obviously everything I share, I’m doing myself.

Abraham Kim
So, how can an organization like CKA help?

Jeanie Chang
I love that. I heard you’re doing more for students. I would love to somehow advocate or have a platform where we could provide better mental health services for college students. I wish I could tell you what that looks like right now. It can’t be me running around college campuses, but maybe CKA can have a platform where they can advocate where there’s more training for these clinicians on campus. Do you know why they’re not very good; it’s because some of these counselors are fresh out of grad school and some of them in grad school training. I remember, cause I did one, but I did it in community mental health for trauma, but they’re not as well trained. These days, these college students, they’re pretty bright and they’re pretty smart, so they need some well-trained counselors. Perhaps we can make it a platform where we’re going to talk about how to promote more mental health resources on campus where you bring in licensed psychologists to talk to these students and not graduate students, which a lot of them will get because they’re cheaper. So, I mean we’re talking to bigger level of funding, but more attention needs to be made on the resources for college kids. As CKA, we could just talk about it and perhaps this will help, right? Someone listening on a college campus.

Abraham Kim
How can people get in touch with you if they want to connect with you?

Jeanie Chang
Sure. Well thanks for listening, but they can just email me at jeaniechang@yourchangeprovider.com. I’m best on email, cause sometimes I’m in sessions and I’m not able to talk or you can just check out my website, yourchangeprovider.com. I like that because I want to promote change and provide that change. And when you come to see me, student, young, old, I expect change to happen. You’re not going to come in and talk your head off and I just go, “Oh, that’s too bad”. No, that’s not my style. My style is, “well, you’re going to talk about this and we’re going to change what’s going on. How can you change and how can you make things better so you’re not experiencing this?”, so that’s why I call myself that.

Abraham Kim
Well, thank you Jeanie. Thanks for your insights and just these important tips, how to deal with mental stress and how to have a happier and healthier mental health. Thank you again for coming and we hope to have you on our next podcast.

Jeanie Chang
Thanks!

Abraham Kim
I hope you enjoyed this interview with Jeanie Chang. Jeanie brought up a lot of great things to chew on that I hope all of us are able to think about, but most important may be the fact that we do need to choose to prioritize our mental health.

Abraham Kim
So often, we find ourselves locked into routines, schedules, and work, and that normalcy can provide comfort. But we should always be striving to improve ourselves, better our relationships and just taking a few minutes each day to clear your thoughts or think through particular situations or even speak with a clinical professional goes a long way towards maintaining a healthier mindset.

Abraham Kim
Thank you again for listening to this episode of the Korean American Perspectives. As always, we ask that you please subscribe to our podcast and visit our website at councilka.org for more interviews, show notes, and more. Also, feel free to send us an email at podcast@korean.councilka.org with any comments or topics you may have.

Abraham Kim
Thank you again and hope you tune in next time for the Korean American Perspectives.